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"I believe we are a "part of" a larger Remnant (fundamental #13) along with other "true churches" "
Adventism speaks as if its a large group of people, 7th Day Adventism is group to reach out to a large group.
so i beg to ask what about your 7th Day Adventism?
(PS: It would also be good if you could register your user name in Disqus with a valid email address.)
I hope and pray that we can instigate careful change within the community of Adventist fellowship. I see much better chance of success from within than from the numerous offshoots that often develop new and diverse rigidities by which they judge others, and many of these offshoots simply fizzle and die, or further break up into segmented groups. Then there are those who simply leave and don't create or join a new community, thus further breaking down community.
We need community. To be able to seek truth and grow in Christ together is critical to our ability to be a voice for Christ and for the principles of love and tolerance that he calls us to. It is also critical because we need each other as checks and balances. So much of what I've learned in life has been due to my ability to bounce my personal findings off of other thinking people and get some outside perspective.
Thank you for articulating what I have thought/ felt for a long time.
Blessings!
we can't control ppl's thoughts--we can't dictate how they process the ideas we share in worship. but how do we worship as a unified body if we have space for our individual God-encounters?
I wonder about some of the terms used such as "perfection." I think some people have misused it. To me it means maturity, especially in relationships with one another--love. It has little to do with lifestyle as we interpret it (except maybe loving yourself in the health area??). Also "justice" to me is fair--God is fair. Using fairness instead of "justice" makes more sense. It isn't punishment as commonly used. What do the theologians here say?
It doesn’t take spending much time reading the Bible through—maybe once or twice—before you start to understand and grasp the simplicity and beauty of the Gospel—God’s good news to humankind—that there has been a bridge built from Heaven to Earth in order to restore a lost relationship with God. Christ is that bridge and we are now free to walk boldly into God’s presence because of it. This understanding leads us quickly beyond debates about Righteousness by Faith or legalism. The truth is stunningly clear
What happens to all those years of wrangling over the nuances of truth? What do we do with all of the time spent on debating doctrine and “truth”? This is what lies beyond the post-modern era.
Gnosticism, for lack of any better term, is about inviting God into your heart, mind, soul, and body, and embarking on a path of learning about God through the power of an indwelling Christ. Doctrinal debate and traditional theology take a back seat and you invite the Spirit of God to be your personal teacher and wisdom guide.
From the perspective of eternity and the vastness of who God is, our take on doctrine and theology is small indeed. At best, we are shooting in the dark, piecing together scriptures to understand All That Is. A huge dose of humility and teach-ability should be at the basis of all doctrinal discussions. Holding our “truth” lightly is a very good idea.
What the world is hungry for, what we are hungry for is a personal God—One that meets the challenge of living in a post 9/11 world. We need more than a God who lives in a church; we need a personal God, One that lives within.
This doesn't mean that we throw the church out the window, it means that the church becomes a vehicle to accomplish the purpose of the Spirit in our lives and in the world.
The Spirit living within us is the only reality that will enable us to keep the law. The law is to love God with our whole hearts, to love ourselves, and to love others. This is complete and perfect love and it is the Gospel commission—to love perfectly. Christ is the only person who has ever done that. Christ living in us allows us to be channels of love.
The post-modern world is hungry for love. Perfect love. God’s love. When we start focusing on loving people, loving each other, and loving God, we will start to come closer to God’s ideal for the church.
We are preparing for a marriage banquet. At the heart of a wedding is love between the Beloved and the loved. It only makes sense when you are in love. How can we debate love? How can there be any division when we are all in love with the Beloved.
The Apostle John in his book of 1 John explains this concept so beautifully. The whole book reminds us Who is love, how to love, and the reason for love. It is a great place to begin to understand why we are here and what we are supposed to be doing.
Is it possible (to borrow a metaphor from a world religions textbook I had in college), that the enduring world religions (I'm not talking scientology here) are like the Rose Window in Notre Dame (I'm in Paris for the summer). It's a beautiful stain-glass window with different colors, shapes, etc., with the same light source shining through on the outside?
Challenging questions and a thoughtful perspective. In my view, God can and does reveal himself to humanity outside the confines of Christendom (without our help much of the time). And even vice-versa as we can also be ministered to (not in a conversion sense) about God as Jehovah, Allah, The Divine? I gather that Samir's project in Manhattan will be much like the Rose window you described - one of equal witnessing opportunities where the story of "God" is told through other religions.
I know my western Christian thinking finds it hard at times to reconcile religions that believe in God/a god but reject the deity of Christ. And with that, I know I still need to be open to God's revelation in their beliefs and avoid being cast the role of religious imperialist and allow Christ to shine through me instead.
On a cross-referenced note, if you haven't read it yet, check out the article written by pastor Ryan Bell at the Faith House blog called "Who is My Neighbor?" Jesus illustrates in the story of the Good Samaritan that God can engage with anyone, regardless of how apostate their belief system.
One of the things I have seen come up time and time again within the Adventist churches I have been associated with is the thought that we "Advenists" have a message that needs to be preached. To which I ask, "What is the Adventist Message?" I often try to push the point that this so called "Adventist Message" is the Message of Jesus. Jesus, and Jesus. Somehow many people don't feel to comfortable with that. It's almost as though there is something more meaningful about the "adventist" message over any other message. Like we are the keepers of the Faith. Enough rambling thanks for listening.
My husband and I have had many reasons not to stay within the Adventist church, but God has kept us here because we can do more for Him within than without. Our prayer is to simply worship and love, and through that bring people to the feet of Jesus.
Again, thank you for your words. I, too, am glad I can still call myself an Adventist because of the perspective you have expressed so well.
Ellen White I believe is a divinely inspired woman, but the church has wrapped itself around Ellen in such a way that some of the preaching is partly from Ellen and mixed with the Bible. There are scholarly people here who pick apart Doug Batchelor (3ABN) over slips of the tongue when he sites an Ellen White "prophetic" tome, rather than strictly adhering to scripture references. I could go on, but I think you understand.
I work at a contemporary church of 7,000 assisting in research for a pastor (me, an Adventist -- imagine that!). My saving grace is being able to listen to 3ABN, though some of the programming borders on embarrassingly strict SDA fundamentalism.
I would welcome being able to become part of a form of spiritually led Christians who believe that Adventists can evolve spiritually and shed some of the dead weight of works righteousness.
Look forwarding to hearing from anyone! God bless you all.
This quote is not an attempt to scare people into the church. Its simply obedience to scripture. "When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand." (Ez. 3:18).
Marcel, I love you brother, but you are fulfilling your purpose in the shaking. What you are doing will not prosper. New light doesn't destroy old light. It builds upon it. The old Adventist message was designed to prepare the world for judgment day, as John's message was to prepare for the Messiah. His was a stern message, just what God wanted it to be. And he faithfully discharged his God-given duty.
To undo or to reinvent the work of EGW is no different from the Pharisees saying John had a devil. Are you so sure you want to go there? Those who rejected John rejected Jesus.
There is a sternness to real love. If we aren't reconciled with that kind of love, we aren't reconciled to God. When we come to Christ, we are immediately reconciled to God, and then to God's law and to His propensity to judgment-filled love.
As Jesus said, "Salvation is of the Jews." Even so, still, salvation is of the SDAs. To attack His Advent movement is to attack the apple of His eye and to attack Him.
Again, I love you, brother, everyone following you and everyone you represent.
My question is, "Why do you insist on remaining an Adventist? Why not simply attend a Christian church that is based on the Gospel instead of all the legalisms and EGW's writings?" By definition, calling yourself an Adventist means you accept the Investigative Judgement, Perfection, and those wacky visions EGW was supposed to have had.
Just make a clean break from the SDA cult and go back to the Bible and the Bible alone.
I appreciate that you thought my perspective was refreshing. With all due respect, I also think you miss the point entirely and your ignorance in the statement "Just make a clean break from the SDA cult and go back to the Bible and the Bible alone" shows through. Do you actually think for a second that all Adventists are chained to legalism? Disciples of EGW? Or that all they care about is proselytizing theology?
Of course you do.
It would behoove you to start on your path of enlightenment here
Resting in Him,
Dennis Fischer
I think you misread the remnant bit. I stated,
" I believe we are a "part of" a larger Remnant (fundamental #13) along with other "true churches" preaching the Gospel. Stressing "a part of" to the official statement would unravel decades of denominational exclusivity and arrogance."
Being a "part of" a larger remnant certainly includes individuals, in addition to denominations, dontcha think?
If Christ is truly the center of Adventist theology, not the festal weekly Sabbath, then Sabbath observance is no longer considered as becoming the final test and seal of God. Good luck in persuading the General Conference in changing their eschatological Sabbath stance.
Resting in Him,
Dennis Fischer
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Unless of course, Christ is the center of the Sabbath.
Matthew 7:21-23 (New International Version)
21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.