Adventist Wheel - Latest Comments in http://reinventingsdawheel.blogspot.com/2006/04/qualifying-this-blog-for-adventists.html

Re: http://reinventingsdawheel.blogspot.com/2006/04/qualifying-this-blog-for-adventists.html

gwalter — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 16:42:00 -0000

I'm sorry Nomar, I'm really not getting your implication? I don't understand your question? What are you trying to say, or ask? Please help me to understand. Thanks!

(PS: It would also be good if you could register your user name in Disqus with a valid email address.)

Re: http://reinventingsdawheel.blogspot.com/2006/04/qualifying-this-blog-for-adventists.html

Nomar — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 07:25:45 -0000

The above speaks much of 'Adventism' nearly as if its an ecumenical movement, JESUS washing leaders of the worlds feet as if to make a statement, JESUS said unless you deny yourself you cannot be my disciple, Many sheep i have that are not of this fold that must be reached to come into one fold (John 10:16) yet you say there are other remnant true churches

"I believe we are a "part of" a larger Remnant (fundamental #13) along with other "true churches" "

Adventism speaks as if its a large group of people, 7th Day Adventism is group to reach out to a large group.

so i beg to ask what about your 7th Day Adventism?

Re: http://reinventingsdawheel.blogspot.com/2006/04/qualifying-this-blog-for-adventists.html

gwalter — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 06:02:08 -0000

I'm not sure what you're trying to say? Could you clarify by unpacking your question a bit more? Thanks! G

Re: http://reinventingsdawheel.blogspot.com/2006/04/qualifying-this-blog-for-adventists.html

Nomar — Tue, 10 Nov 2009 07:38:14 -0000

Interesting points about your adventism and would seem to make sense. what about your Seventh DayAdventism?

Re: http://reinventingsdawheel.blogspot.com/2006/04/qualifying-this-blog-for-adventists.html

gwalter — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 08:44:29 -0000

Thank you Jeff!

Re: http://reinventingsdawheel.blogspot.com/2006/04/qualifying-this-blog-for-adventists.html

Jeff — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 22:38:03 -0000

Interesting and thought-provoking. Change "coerse" to "coerce."

Re: http://reinventingsdawheel.blogspot.com/2006/04/qualifying-this-blog-for-adventists.html

BrianV — Sat, 28 Mar 2009 16:04:00 -0000

I've been following this blog for a little while now and made a few comments, but I can't believe I haven't read this through before! What a refreshing take on Adventist doctrine and philosophy. Thank you!

I hope and pray that we can instigate careful change within the community of Adventist fellowship. I see much better chance of success from within than from the numerous offshoots that often develop new and diverse rigidities by which they judge others, and many of these offshoots simply fizzle and die, or further break up into segmented groups. Then there are those who simply leave and don't create or join a new community, thus further breaking down community.

We need community. To be able to seek truth and grow in Christ together is critical to our ability to be a voice for Christ and for the principles of love and tolerance that he calls us to. It is also critical because we need each other as checks and balances. So much of what I've learned in life has been due to my ability to bounce my personal findings off of other thinking people and get some outside perspective.

Re: http://reinventingsdawheel.blogspot.com/2006/04/qualifying-this-blog-for-adventists.html

A. Friend — Thu, 01 Jan 2009 09:45:00 -0000

Dennis said...
If Christ is truly the center of Adventist theology, not the festal weekly Sabbath, then Sabbath observance is no longer considered as becoming the final test and seal of God. Good luck in persuading the General Conference in changing their eschatological Sabbath stance.

Resting in Him,

Dennis Fischer
--------------------------------

Unless of course, Christ is the center of the Sabbath.

Matthew 7:21-23 (New International Version)

21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Re: http://reinventingsdawheel.blogspot.com/2006/04/qualifying-this-blog-for-adventists.html

Steven Edwards — Sat, 29 Nov 2008 19:02:00 -0000

No you are not splitting hairs. God is coming back for His body who are individual believers in Jesus Christ. Come soon Lord Jesus!

Re: http://reinventingsdawheel.blogspot.com/2006/04/qualifying-this-blog-for-adventists.html

Cluesy — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:15:00 -0000

No, I don't think so. I don't see how any denomination can claim to be a part of a remnant. Jesus is coming back for individual people, not clumps of people who call themselves something. You and I as individual believers will be part of a remnant, but "we" are not 'part of' of a remnant. To say it another way, no one will get in by association, so it's meaningless to say that a group of people (a denomination) is a 'part of' a remnant. Do you think I'm splitting hairs?

Re: http://reinventingsdawheel.blogspot.com/2006/04/qualifying-this-blog-for-adventists.html

Marcel — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 20:38:00 -0000

Cluesy,

I think you misread the remnant bit. I stated,

" I believe we are a "part of" a larger Remnant (fundamental #13) along with other "true churches" preaching the Gospel. Stressing "a part of" to the official statement would unravel decades of denominational exclusivity and arrogance."

Being a "part of" a larger remnant certainly includes individuals, in addition to denominations, dontcha think?

Re: http://reinventingsdawheel.blogspot.com/2006/04/qualifying-this-blog-for-adventists.html

Cluesy — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 20:26:00 -0000

Though I agree with the majority of what you write here, I'm curious to know why you still hold on to the Remnant part. How can an entire organization be a remnant. The remnant will be made of individual Christ-followers irrespective of their denominational affiliation, no? Would be interested to read your thinking on this.

Re: http://reinventingsdawheel.blogspot.com/2006/04/qualifying-this-blog-for-adventists.html

Dennis — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 11:08:00 -0000

If Christ is truly the center of Adventist theology, not the festal weekly Sabbath, then Sabbath observance is no longer considered as becoming the final test and seal of God. Good luck in persuading the General Conference in changing their eschatological Sabbath stance.

Resting in Him,

Dennis Fischer

Re: http://reinventingsdawheel.blogspot.com/2006/04/qualifying-this-blog-for-adventists.html

Marcel — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 02:34:00 -0000

Joseph,

I appreciate that you thought my perspective was refreshing. With all due respect, I also think you miss the point entirely and your ignorance in the statement "Just make a clean break from the SDA cult and go back to the Bible and the Bible alone" shows through. Do you actually think for a second that all Adventists are chained to legalism? Disciples of EGW? Or that all they care about is proselytizing theology?

Of course you do.

It would behoove you to start on your path of enlightenment here

Re: http://reinventingsdawheel.blogspot.com/2006/04/qualifying-this-blog-for-adventists.html

Joseph — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 01:49:00 -0000

What a refreshing perspective provided in the original post!

My question is, "Why do you insist on remaining an Adventist? Why not simply attend a Christian church that is based on the Gospel instead of all the legalisms and EGW's writings?" By definition, calling yourself an Adventist means you accept the Investigative Judgement, Perfection, and those wacky visions EGW was supposed to have had.

Just make a clean break from the SDA cult and go back to the Bible and the Bible alone.

Re: http://reinventingsdawheel.blogspot.com/2006/04/qualifying-this-blog-for-adventists.html

David — Fri, 13 Jun 2008 07:29:00 -0000

The church may appear as about to fall, but it does not fall. It remains, while the sinners in Zion will be sifted out--the chaff separated from the precious wheat. This is a terrible ordeal, but nevertheless it must take place.--2SM 380.

This quote is not an attempt to scare people into the church. Its simply obedience to scripture. "When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand." (Ez. 3:18).

Marcel, I love you brother, but you are fulfilling your purpose in the shaking. What you are doing will not prosper. New light doesn't destroy old light. It builds upon it. The old Adventist message was designed to prepare the world for judgment day, as John's message was to prepare for the Messiah. His was a stern message, just what God wanted it to be. And he faithfully discharged his God-given duty.

To undo or to reinvent the work of EGW is no different from the Pharisees saying John had a devil. Are you so sure you want to go there? Those who rejected John rejected Jesus.

There is a sternness to real love. If we aren't reconciled with that kind of love, we aren't reconciled to God. When we come to Christ, we are immediately reconciled to God, and then to God's law and to His propensity to judgment-filled love.

As Jesus said, "Salvation is of the Jews." Even so, still, salvation is of the SDAs. To attack His Advent movement is to attack the apple of His eye and to attack Him.

Again, I love you, brother, everyone following you and everyone you represent.

Re: http://reinventingsdawheel.blogspot.com/2006/04/qualifying-this-blog-for-adventists.html

Barbara — Wed, 21 May 2008 18:44:00 -0000

Amen sister! I am SOOO relieved to hear someone write about (and very well) what's been in my heart and unsaid for years. I'm from California and now live in the South where there are few SDAs. The reputation of SDA here is not great, which is too bad, since some of the doctrine of the church I attend is not what I believe (death, second coming, Sabbath, etc.).

Ellen White I believe is a divinely inspired woman, but the church has wrapped itself around Ellen in such a way that some of the preaching is partly from Ellen and mixed with the Bible. There are scholarly people here who pick apart Doug Batchelor (3ABN) over slips of the tongue when he sites an Ellen White "prophetic" tome, rather than strictly adhering to scripture references. I could go on, but I think you understand.

I work at a contemporary church of 7,000 assisting in research for a pastor (me, an Adventist -- imagine that!). My saving grace is being able to listen to 3ABN, though some of the programming borders on embarrassingly strict SDA fundamentalism.

I would welcome being able to become part of a form of spiritually led Christians who believe that Adventists can evolve spiritually and shed some of the dead weight of works righteousness.

Look forwarding to hearing from anyone! God bless you all.

Re: http://reinventingsdawheel.blogspot.com/2006/04/qualifying-this-blog-for-adventists.html

Pastor Marla — Tue, 26 Feb 2008 11:49:00 -0000

Thank you for your insight, Marcel! It's exciting to see that there are many out there who view things as I do. My husband and I are Associate Pastors within a contemporary church in Boise, Idaho (our official title is "Associates of Pastoral Care" because we are not seminarians). We are not employed by the conference, but by the Oasis church body. We are so blessed to be a part of a church that talks more about loving relationships than about doctrines. I am also very blessed to be accepted as a pastor, and very rarely hear concerns about my role in the church.

My husband and I have had many reasons not to stay within the Adventist church, but God has kept us here because we can do more for Him within than without. Our prayer is to simply worship and love, and through that bring people to the feet of Jesus.

Again, thank you for your words. I, too, am glad I can still call myself an Adventist because of the perspective you have expressed so well.

Re: http://reinventingsdawheel.blogspot.com/2006/04/qualifying-this-blog-for-adventists.html

jill — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 07:55:00 -0000

Amen & Amen. I am so blessed by reading comments from others and grateful that I am not alone in my beliefs. I live in the conservative midwest and it is refreshing to see others like myself out there. A close friend of mine who since has become a pastor once said "I would like to think that the Adventist church is big enough for all of us" He was right. My belief is to be a minister to those who are hurting, hungry, poor,widowed, divorced,abused,confused, struggling etc. The list can go on and on. The world to many is a cruel place. And as believers of the war between good and evil we need to be there to comfort those with the same comfort that Jesus gives to us.

Re: http://reinventingsdawheel.blogspot.com/2006/04/qualifying-this-blog-for-adventists.html

vasoserc — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 16:57:00 -0000

Thanks a lot! So-ooo good to know you're not the only one in the world thinking that way! Christ is the center of my faith alone. As for EGW and Investigative Judgement - let those who believe in them believe. The crucial athing for my salvation is that JESUS died on the cross to save me!! Amen!

Re: http://reinventingsdawheel.blogspot.com/2006/04/qualifying-this-blog-for-adventists.html

davidoceguera — Sun, 14 Oct 2007 04:41:00 -0000

I am so glad to see other's struggling or maybe, thinking about what it really means to be a follower of Jesus. I really appreciate your insights and your honesty.
One of the things I have seen come up time and time again within the Adventist churches I have been associated with is the thought that we "Advenists" have a message that needs to be preached. To which I ask, "What is the Adventist Message?" I often try to push the point that this so called "Adventist Message" is the Message of Jesus. Jesus, and Jesus. Somehow many people don't feel to comfortable with that. It's almost as though there is something more meaningful about the "adventist" message over any other message. Like we are the keepers of the Faith. Enough rambling thanks for listening.

Re: http://reinventingsdawheel.blogspot.com/2006/04/qualifying-this-blog-for-adventists.html

Lorelei — Tue, 04 Sep 2007 22:53:00 -0000

Hooray for you, and for your wonderful blog! It's always refreshing to find another Adventist who's willing to investigate their faith and even (God forbid!) modify their beliefs/practices based upon their understanding of Scripture as led by the Holy Spirit. Keep spreading the good news that true Adventism (and true Christianity, for that matter) is about loving Christ and sharing that love with others - until we meet Him face to face.

Re: http://reinventingsdawheel.blogspot.com/2006/04/qualifying-this-blog-for-adventists.html

Marcel — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 01:39:00 -0000

Daneen,

Challenging questions and a thoughtful perspective. In my view, God can and does reveal himself to humanity outside the confines of Christendom (without our help much of the time). And even vice-versa as we can also be ministered to (not in a conversion sense) about God as Jehovah, Allah, The Divine? I gather that Samir's project in Manhattan will be much like the Rose window you described - one of equal witnessing opportunities where the story of "God" is told through other religions.

I know my western Christian thinking finds it hard at times to reconcile religions that believe in God/a god but reject the deity of Christ. And with that, I know I still need to be open to God's revelation in their beliefs and avoid being cast the role of religious imperialist and allow Christ to shine through me instead.

On a cross-referenced note, if you haven't read it yet, check out the article written by pastor Ryan Bell at the Faith House blog called "Who is My Neighbor?" Jesus illustrates in the story of the Good Samaritan that God can engage with anyone, regardless of how apostate their belief system.

Re: http://reinventingsdawheel.blogspot.com/2006/04/qualifying-this-blog-for-adventists.html

Daneen — Sun, 12 Aug 2007 01:40:00 -0000

Thanks for this articulation Marcel; I found myself nodding along to most. Here's a question I still struggle with along the evangelism line--does it have to be exclusively Christianity? Obviously my witness is to a walk with Christ, but what about devout believers of other faiths? I'm going beyond the "even people who haven't heard Jesus' name will be in heaven" idea. I'm asking if God only revealed his truth through Christianity. I can't help but think that this is right for me, but then I come from a Western background where the ideology of Christianity comfortably fits? Does it seem that so much of the world could be wrong? Could I really expect a Muslim to abondon the faith of her family, of his country? I could never convert to such a different religion, why do I expect someone else to?

Is it possible (to borrow a metaphor from a world religions textbook I had in college), that the enduring world religions (I'm not talking scientology here) are like the Rose Window in Notre Dame (I'm in Paris for the summer). It's a beautiful stain-glass window with different colors, shapes, etc., with the same light source shining through on the outside?

Re: http://reinventingsdawheel.blogspot.com/2006/04/qualifying-this-blog-for-adventists.html

Julie Smith, MS — Tue, 07 Aug 2007 12:25:00 -0000

What do we have after the post-modern era? What will lead us beyond "isms"? I believe the answer is an old one, but relevant for today.

It doesn’t take spending much time reading the Bible through—maybe once or twice—before you start to understand and grasp the simplicity and beauty of the Gospel—God’s good news to humankind—that there has been a bridge built from Heaven to Earth in order to restore a lost relationship with God. Christ is that bridge and we are now free to walk boldly into God’s presence because of it. This understanding leads us quickly beyond debates about Righteousness by Faith or legalism. The truth is stunningly clear

What happens to all those years of wrangling over the nuances of truth? What do we do with all of the time spent on debating doctrine and “truth”? This is what lies beyond the post-modern era.

Gnosticism, for lack of any better term, is about inviting God into your heart, mind, soul, and body, and embarking on a path of learning about God through the power of an indwelling Christ. Doctrinal debate and traditional theology take a back seat and you invite the Spirit of God to be your personal teacher and wisdom guide.

From the perspective of eternity and the vastness of who God is, our take on doctrine and theology is small indeed. At best, we are shooting in the dark, piecing together scriptures to understand All That Is. A huge dose of humility and teach-ability should be at the basis of all doctrinal discussions. Holding our “truth” lightly is a very good idea.

What the world is hungry for, what we are hungry for is a personal God—One that meets the challenge of living in a post 9/11 world. We need more than a God who lives in a church; we need a personal God, One that lives within.

This doesn't mean that we throw the church out the window, it means that the church becomes a vehicle to accomplish the purpose of the Spirit in our lives and in the world.

The Spirit living within us is the only reality that will enable us to keep the law. The law is to love God with our whole hearts, to love ourselves, and to love others. This is complete and perfect love and it is the Gospel commission—to love perfectly. Christ is the only person who has ever done that. Christ living in us allows us to be channels of love.

The post-modern world is hungry for love. Perfect love. God’s love. When we start focusing on loving people, loving each other, and loving God, we will start to come closer to God’s ideal for the church.

We are preparing for a marriage banquet. At the heart of a wedding is love between the Beloved and the loved. It only makes sense when you are in love. How can we debate love? How can there be any division when we are all in love with the Beloved.

The Apostle John in his book of 1 John explains this concept so beautifully. The whole book reminds us Who is love, how to love, and the reason for love. It is a great place to begin to understand why we are here and what we are supposed to be doing.