DISQUS

André R. · 1 year ago

Marcel,

I don't think Ellen would have a problem with your view of Christianity. If you're able to stick to it, it will do more than the fundamentalist Adventist has done. She was far more balanced than the red books have portrayed her.

As far as her gift, I think that we end up limiting God by using Biblical prophets as a standard to which all divine revelation must compare. God is not bound to His past actions and He can unfold and develop His revelations in ways that He didn't in biblical times.

If we had an even more modern prophet, in 2008, some of the tests of 2000BC would not necessarily apply.

andré
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Gordon · 1 year ago

Yes, she was a truly remarkable woman. . .

Shawn Brace · 1 year ago

If I may ask, Marcel, I'd like to know why you don't think "she qualifies as a Bible prophet"? That's fine that you think that (though I would disagree with you), but you didn't give any reasons for your skepticism.

I'm glad you're not totally hostile towards her, like so many others are!

Ellamae · 1 year ago

Marcel,
I am not sure the word "prophet" is appropriate either, as EW asked to be called a "messenger" instead. That would seem more accurate. To claim to be a prophet today could put one in the wrong company. I see a prophet as one limited to forecasting the future. Our co-founder did more than that as a leader, messenger, and counselor. I believe that she was inspired by God for this developing movement at that time period. Perhaps it was a movement to bring Bible honesty to all Christian churches but with organizing into a denomination this failed. Therefore some of the specifics don't fit our timeframe, but the principles do.
It is possible that the end-times, had they developed as indicated then, could have actually come about. I am not sure the same specific details and villians apply today (only the future can tell and we should be ready for other circumstances). Only following Christ and depending on Him will protect us, not our knowledge of who is 666. The Bible is our written guide that tells about Jesus, and we need it first. Whether the end-times are literally fulfilled or symbolicaly fulfilled we won't know til it happens.
But we know some people are growing more wicked as part of the sin problem while others are trying to solve the problems. Good vs. evil. She is certainly right in that regard.
I do not believe in absolute perfection (as we are prone to define it) in my messengers nor do I see the necessity for every detail they say to be correct, but they will be God-led, they will love people, be moral, be generally selfless, and not materialistic. They focus on the spiritual. Their perfection will be that defined by maturity. She lived such a life.
She was a model woman and still is, but unfortunately this denomination did not give women the use of their talents as she advocated. I believe it was for a purpose that God chose a woman to be His messenger in this case.
As far as messengers today, I have no doubt that they are here if we listen.

David · 1 year ago

Marcel,
"Thou art not far from the kingdom of God." And time is running out.

Marcel · 1 year ago

Shawn,

Apologies for the delay in answering your question, I've just returned from my honeymoon.

This is a complicated topic. How do we arrive at defining what a "prophet" is based on biblical standards? Jesus said that one should judge a prophet by his fruits and by checking whether a prophet's predictions come true.

I'm not going to shed any negative light here with bullet points on her failed prophecies--the anti-EGW websites do a good job of that already. Even the Adventist World article says, under the 'Fulfilled Prophecy section that EGW's work did not primarily consist of predicting the future.

So if predicting the future wasn't her bread-and-butter gift, and some visions are questionable, does she still qualify?

Lets agree that there should be SOME minimum requirements of a true prophet, right? Clear (not vague) prophecies, 100% accuracy in prophesying, must not contradict the Bible, etc.

So where do you draw the line with EGW?

Granted, and in defense of EGW, as Ellamae suggested, perhaps we can arrive at her being "inspired" instead. I'm much more comfortable with this definition, as I honestly believe the Holy Spirit gifted her the ability to lead in ministry, teaching, writing, giving, leadership, spiritual formation, discipleship.

Finally, if you go by the more contemporary definition of a prophet as someone who spreads God's truths, then I would agree that she may be a prophet. That's a loose interpretation.

But if you're speaking of visions and fulfilled prophecies, I have major reservations.

So, Shawn, why do you think she qualifies as a "bible prophet?"